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Frenchy
Advanced Guru

United Kingdom
197 Posts

Posted - 08 February 2015 :  12:07:33 AM  Show Profile
Ian, I was unaware that you have the 1230cc engine, with no pinch bolt and a floating gudgeon pin, removal from the top should be no problem.The 1444cc engine with the pinch bolt also has a locking tab and when you are flat on you back under the car is difficult to release and later replace. This is what helped me make the decision to remove the engine and carry out the "Full Monty".

Our vehicles came for the same source, James Iverson a well known Daimler Lanchester Dealer. Your Sports Saloon was parked next to BRW813.He would not sell it at that time. regards Frenchy
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luffenhamflyer
Senior Member

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 09 February 2015 :  4:43:19 PM  Show Profile
Well, start of another week and decided to recap on all the information I was given - including Dave's excellent photographs which once I had got my head around them all made sense!

So, have jacked up the car, using a bright LED torch and now knowing where to look I can see the pinch bolts holding the gudgeon pin!

However decided to see if I can remove one cylinder from the bottom complete (I've freed two at the moment - one and four). Once I'd squeezed the rings back into place (with fingers) and relocated the piston I lifted the con rod from underneath and moved the whole upper bracket over the crankshaft and to the drivers side where I thought there was a little more room. By slowly rotating the crankshaft a little the con rod dropped down leaving the attached piston above the crank counterbalance weights. By pushing the con rod back slightly and keeping the piston free - then rotating the crankshaft very slowly counter clockwise the whole assembly came out cleanly without fouling anything!

This was all done on my own - so for the second cylinder I put a plumbers adjustable wrench on the starting claw and asked my wife to gently turn this while I was underneath manipulating the piston and con rod. Took about 3 minutes to get it out!

In fact tried putting it all back into position - and to get the piston to the bottom of the bore was quite simple. How a ring clamp attaches and works I don't know - so that might not be quite so simple.

Still at least I'm heading in the right direction. I'll keep you updated - and many thanks for the help.

Ian
Luffenhamflyer
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Frenchy
Advanced Guru

United Kingdom
197 Posts

Posted - 09 February 2015 :  11:46:35 PM  Show Profile
Well done Ian, you have proved that the piston and rod can be removed from below. The tricky part is the return journey and the ring clamp. Have you obtained pistons OK. Keep us all informed . Cheers Frenchy
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Frenchy
Advanced Guru

United Kingdom
197 Posts

Posted - 10 February 2015 :  9:43:43 PM  Show Profile
Ian, you do have the option when fitting the pistons and rods from below to remove the rings. The bottom of the bores have a slight flair which helps the location. the rings can be refitted from the top. This does increase the risk of breaking a ring. Cheers Frenchy.
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luffenhamflyer
Senior Member

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 01 March 2015 :  12:07:37 PM  Show Profile
Hello all again,

Just a quick update and question.Today we cleaned out and checked the bores for size and circumference. When I 'looked around' to see what piston sets were available I found all where +40 thou - no matter which supplier they came from.

Now John the mechanic friend who is working with me on this work said originally they would have been available at standard, standard +10 thou etc. - probably up to standard +60 thou and that only when we had checked the bores would we know if those I had found would work.

As it happens when we measured the bores they are all cylindrical - and 40 thou (there or there abouts) oversize!

Is this just luck - or is there a reason for this? Because at +40 thou that is not just wear over the years - and one suspects the engine must have had a small rebore at some time.

Any thoughts - unless of course it has something to do with using the same pistons on the later 1445cc engine - but just with a longer stroke?

Anyway at least I can get some pistons that will work.

Regards

Ian
Luffenhamflyer
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Norfolk Lad
Super Expert

United Kingdom
530 Posts

Posted - 01 March 2015 :  2:29:38 PM  Show Profile
Marcel has some pistons for sale on ebay which one set is plus 40 you can contact him from this forum , sounds like it had a rebore taking it to plus 40 and done little work since.Peter
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Norfolk Lad
Super Expert

United Kingdom
530 Posts

Posted - 01 March 2015 :  2:35:17 PM  Show Profile
Posted - 17 February 2015 : 4:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote
I've listed 3 sets of pistons on ebay but will gladly sell direct to forum members.2 sets are Lanchester 10 the 3rd set only has the Hepolite ref no. 8909. Can anyone tell me which model they are for?

This was Marcel giving the offer to forum members still has 2 sets, they are 1 std, 1 set plus 40 but only if correct model

Edited by - Norfolk Lad on 01 March 2015 2:39:14 PM
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Frenchy
Advanced Guru

United Kingdom
197 Posts

Posted - 01 March 2015 :  6:25:55 PM  Show Profile
Hi Ian, you have been lucky, rebored at +40 and you can obtain the pistons. The bore on the 1203cc engine is 63.5mm 95mm stroke and the 1444cc is 66mm with a 105.4mm stroke. Hope all goes well. Frenchy
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Big Al
Super Expert

United Kingdom
5528 Posts

Posted - 14 March 2015 :  5:24:28 PM  Show Profile
Hi ,re Piston re-fitting ,I am fortunate (I suppose !! ) that I shall be able to fit my Piston / Co-Rod assembly's prior to re-fitting the Crankshaft ,but I am sure that I did fit a set from the underside with the Crankshaft in place and also recall that it was a "Pig" of a job !!

Cheers A'l

PS I may do an article for the D.M. magazine showing the re-build of my LA11 Engine

Lanchester LA10, 11,12/6,&14hp Registrar(DLOC)
Lanchester,a car for every occasion.


To say it's a hobby ,is slightly distorting the truth ...........It's an OBSESSION!!


I reside in Yeovil Somerset,"Home of the Cider Apple" . O'h Arrr


https://picasaweb.google.com/116325362331314323618/ReadyForMyStepDaughtersWedding?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMCrm7v_8OuCRQ&feat=directlink

I live in Yeovil Somerset,home of the Cider Apple O'h A'r

Edited by - Big Al on 14 March 2015 5:34:24 PM
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luffenhamflyer
Senior Member

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2015 :  3:01:41 PM  Show Profile
Hello everyone,

Thought it about time I brought you all up to date.

The new pistons are now in place and turn over nicely - but I am yet to fire up the engine as I'm waiting to get a new AC ZR1 type oil filter. John (a seasoned mechanic who is helping me) is insistent that no matter how many times I wash out the existing filter with paraffin - it is not going back. Only a new one will do! In fact does anyone know where you can get these? Al, I did email you directly over this - but had no reply.

The job has taken ages through a mixture of John and I finding mutually convenient times to get together - and the amount of time spent working out how to actually fit the pistons.

For those of you contemplating changing the pistons from below on the smaller 1203cc engine without removing it - it can be done - but everything has to be done in one way only - and finding that way takes the time. In fact on more than one occasion we came to a stop and said it can't be done!

We checked the bores to check they were still true and not oval - and then the size. They have obviously been rebored once or twice as they worked out to be standard plus 40 thou. Stroke of luck that at this time we found Marcel was advertising exactly such a set on ebay. I quickly snapped these up.

Now, as I said before, the pistons come out in one way only - and will only go back the same way. Our idea to fit them was to remove the two compression rings and top oil ring - then feed the piston back in from the bottom (which can only be done from the drivers side directly behind the web as it rotates so that when below the bore there is a little room to manoeuvre the piston over the crank) - so the piston without the upper rings can be located in the bore - and the the lower oil ring squeezed with fingers and pushed home.

Unfortunately you need hands the size of a 10 year old coupled with a grip of a weightlifter to make that work - which neither John or I have!

Another rethink called for - and we decided on trying to fit a Jubilee clip around the bottom oil ring to squeeze it up. Managed to work the piston into position - a sharp tap to the con rod bearing with the wooden handle of hammer - and in it went. The Jubilee clip dropped down around the con rod and has to be cut free with tin snips. Push the piston up past the block - refit the 3 top rings - fit the ring clamp - then position the crank to receive the con rod bearing when tapping the piston back into the bore - and hey presto one piston fitted!

Of course I've rather for-shortened the actual time it took to do this first piston - and removed the considerable language used in doing it. In fact it took about 5 hours - but once done about 2 hours to fit the remaining 3 pistons.

Have since refitted the head (the valves for which have all been reground) and all the other ancillaries have been cleaned, polished and repainted as necessary. As soon as I find the oil filter we can see if it all works!*#?

One thing that was interesting was that when we cleaned out and honed the bores there was no scoring - but there was a slight 'etching' to the front two bores. Not enough to necessitate a further rebore - but in John's view a tell tale sign of something he has seen before. 'At some point this car has been standing unused for a number of years' he said. 'The etching is caused by slight water ingress into the cylinders which over years causes the rings to stick to the bores'.

Now I know that the car did have a lengthy lay up after the first owner passed the car onto her daughter who didn't like driving and just garaged it - but that was probably over 60 years ago. 'When someone then comes to try and start the car again it's almost certain to crack the rings where they have been stuck'

When I first bought the car and had a lot of restoration done - and was a bit green - I accepted the comment from the guy working on the engine that 100 psi on 3 cylinders and 90 psi on the other was what could be expected on a car of the age. As such no work was done to the pistons or bores. However I now know this to be untrue and the pressures should be far higher for the engine to be operating properly.

What it points to is that the car has probably been running with broken piston rings for in excess of 50 years!

I'll update the forum when we fire the engine up. Many thanks for you interest and helpful advice.

Ian
Luffenhamflyer
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Big Al
Super Expert

United Kingdom
5528 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2015 :  8:05:24 PM  Show Profile
Hi Ian , sorry for not getting back to you ref the Oil Filter and yes I can help you with that ,I'm actually going to fit a adaptor plate that will take a modern oil filter all being well ,so get in touch with me direct please .
I have incidentally just started on my own engine re-build ,and have taken lots of pictures ,hopefully the re-build will be completed by the end of next Tuesday.
I am very fortunate to have been able to purchase lots of N/O/S parts ,and will have quite a good selection of "Spare Parts" that I may "sell on" some time in the future

Best wishes A'l

Lanchester LA10, 11,12/6,&14hp Registrar(DLOC)
Lanchester,a car for every occasion.


To say it's a hobby ,is slightly distorting the truth ...........It's an OBSESSION!!


I reside in Yeovil Somerset,"Home of the Cider Apple" . O'h Arrr


https://picasaweb.google.com/116325362331314323618/ReadyForMyStepDaughtersWedding?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMCrm7v_8OuCRQ&feat=directlink

I live in Yeovil Somerset,home of the Cider Apple O'h A'r
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